A little something about blogging

Okay, so here's the thing about blogging. If you're like me, and you probably are, you try to get your blogging done as fast as possible so you can be done with it. You look at a few posts, make maybe one or two suggestions, and maybe even a meaningful idea. Then you turn off your computer and never look at the blog until next week. I think that's the essential flaw with blogging. The grade gives us an incentive to post and comment, but not to read other people's topics after you're done and try to have an actual conversation. That's why I think there should be more emphasis on in-class discussion as a participation grade, rather than blogging. In a class period, you have no choice but to have an actual discussion, because you can't just. I'm just getting sort of tired of hearing myself and the same small group of people talking each day in class. Maybe a little grade incentive could get the kids that never talk to contribute. I don't know. But I want to learn more than I'm currently learning in class, and that's not Heidkamp's fault. I think as a class we need to be adventurous and try to synthesize our own ideas rather than awkwardly repeating Heidkamp's. Thoughts?

Comments

[Aaron B.]

I definitely agree with you, the Todd. Our in-class discussions require much more attention than this blog, because this is merely superfluous. I feel that our discussions never really get anywhere because, as you said, the same few people talk everyday. Most of the time, whenever someone brings up a thought, one person will respond and then another will ask their own question instead. I think we need to finish each other's ideas before we awkwardly move on to the next...and that a few more people should speak up.

[Mike s]

Or... maybe talking in class is just an easier way to BS. what i like about blogging is the thought that goes into the post. It requires that everyone formulates a well-written and comprehensive statement. there will always be those kids who are able to survive on talking when they havent read the book, and there are always those who have read that have slipped through the cracks. I realize that Todd A is super outgoing, and nice to be around, and handsome, and funny, and smart and.... I guess my point is that this involves everybody, It tests everybody's comprehension, and it keeps every single person up to date on whats going on without the fear (or just laziness) of sometimes speaking that tends to plague english students who are not Todd or Bryant. I dont really have any problem with Todd's idea, but I favor the thought required for blogging-even if it is slightly...ok, alot more work.

[Rona K.]

Todd, I completely understand what you are arguing but I do not really agree with it. I do agree that there are numerous student in class that do not participate, myself included. If English class participation was worth a grade then I agree with you that many more people, counting myself, would be much more involved in the discussion and class would run more smoothly. On the contrary, Mike makes a legitimate point that there are people who do not like to participate in class- whether that class be English, Psychology, or Calc. Having said that, this blog comes in to play nicely allowing those students to freely speak their thoughts by talking to a computer instead of voicing their opinion in front of 25 students that glare intensely back at you. Nevertheless, I do agree with you that if we were given a grade for how much we talked in class then English class would flow much more smoothly. I think, however, that it is very difficult to create a fair system for this. On one hand you must urge everyone to talk (if your class grade matters to you) and on the other, assign reasonable grades to each individual. This grade must not be judged by how many tallies Mr. Heidkamp can accumulate regarding the times you have talked throughout the period but for the substance that you contribute. My English teacher last year used a point system where 10 points for the week was considered an A. Obviously anything less was graded by the normal grading scale and anything over was considered extra credit. This allowed each student to participate at their leisure and be aware that their involvement reflected their grade. In a sense this was good because you had some leeway that permitted you to decide to talk one day and not talk another (when you're too lazy to do so). Then again, my teacher contributed the most to the discussion by posing questions to the class; thus class seemed more like a 50 minute quiz instead of a discussion. Perhaps this method seems more appealing to your taste? In any case, I do not think that you will ever be able to have a full on highly motivating discussion with a class of 25. In nearly 4 years of high school I have yet to see one myself. My suggestion is that you either settle with what is currently the situation or be creative and come up with an alternative. Post your idea for this new participation program and see what your peers have to say about it.

[Adam S]

Kudos to Todd! Let's try to have an in-class discussion before we take it outside the classroom. It's just makes sense, get the basics before you attempt (and in this case fail) at the fancy stuff.

[Todd]

I know we're all high schoolers and we've never really had a good english class with a competent discussion, but this is supposed to be College English. College courses require intense discussion of the works in question, if you aren't ready for it you won't survive actual college english. I understand that a lot of people won't want to go into English or anything else that requires public speaking, so I can see why the blog can be useful in addition to class discussion. However, I think that in-class discussion should be better and more important than it is now, so why not a participation system made up of in-class discussion and blogging?

[Aaron B.]

In my extremely shy past, I might have gone an entire quarter without raising my hand...now, I see the error of my ways.
All I know is that, if I were in Bernie's shoes, I would be a little fed up with students who
a) doodle through the period
b) text their friends
c) do homework for other classes
d) whisper to their neighbors
and
e) generally don't give a rat's butt what goes on in the class.
Our class has too many moments of pure silence and it just isn't fair to Mr. H. English classes involve both teacher and student participation, and when 80% of the class does not do their part, this creates a very cold, sterile environment.
Also, I find it slightly offensive that Mike degrades in-class discussions to "just an easier way to BS." There are some students, myself included, that generally enjoy reading, interpreting and analyzing works of literature...there is a lot to learn this way. So when these students are confined to speaking to the same 5 minds, it gets tiresome.
In all of my other English classes, participation has been a major part of the grade and I do not understand why that is not the case in our class.

[becca spira]

At the beginning of the year mr. heidkamp said something about how lucky we are to come to class, and for 50 minutes a day, just talk about books. It might sound really lame, but I totally agree with him. The only thing that gets in the way is the fact that we have about five other subjects to juggle. I also agree with todd, and i think another part of the problem is the fact that before this year, many of us havent had a legitimate english teacher. English teachers our fresh, soph, and even junior years (at least the ones that ive had) have made it extremely easy for people not to read and still do well on tests and papers. I'm not personal complaining about this though, because it has been very helpful. Its too often that we learn just for the grade or for a certain amount of points. Yeah, getting a good grade is a driving factor, but I think it is an important skill to have to be able to talk about a book, or an issue (and I don't just mean race and social class in oak park, because that is the only thing that ever gets people talking).

[Mike A.]

Okay, I wasn't planning to blog on this until the end of the year when my grade was cemented or whatever, but seeing as how this is the most involved discussion we might have in all of english class this year, let me say this:

I've taken 9 different english classes in the past 4 years, a few of them summer programs for writing and I have basically 3 this semester. This is the least involved class I've ever been in by far. I know what I'm about to write may apply more to 9th period heidkamp than the other classes that read this, but I think that there are certain elements of this in other classes.

First of all, our class started off on the wrong foot with Heidkamp's shake 'em up lecture on how our lives are meaningless or whatever without letting us talk at all. I think this had the opposite effect of what it was supposed to, stunning everyone into silence rather than motivating us to talk. Things went downhill from there (or maybe uphill, whichever one is a bad thing). The people who talked regularly after that are still the people who talk now, and everyone else just kind of waits out the 50 minutes every day. I think that the main problem was that from that day until maybe a few days ago, we never related any of the themes back to our own lives, which we've done in every good english class I've been in. We identify themes, analyze them, whatever, I like doing that and always have, but its meaningless unless we talk about how they relate to our lives, and not why they were important to some guy who died a few hundred years ago. That's why literature is important, and why people read books instead of sparknotes.

To end my rant, let me say that it is largely our fault for not participating or paying attention, being inattentive second semester seniors, whatever. But every time I say something I think is interesting or a good analysis, i end up feeling isolated, neglected, or we just switch the subject. Maybe my opinions just suck. Even so, I think I should feel more comfortable voicing them.

[Ashley E]

I don't think that Heidi is completely disregarding our in-class participation. I think that those people who have been participating should go on doing their thing and just not complain about the lack of participation from others. I think that we have always had legitimate discussions in our class, and if you force those people who do not want to participate to speak up, they will just find anything to throw into the conversation that half the time benefits in NO way, shape, or form. I would rather gain something from listening to a good discussion than to spend my time thinking up some comment just to get a tally. If someone really has the need to say something that they truly believe will add to the discussion, they will speak up OR have someone do it for them.

[Todd]

I think it's important that we make the class a more comfortable place to voice opinions. I know that asking more people to talk is kind of like the way we all get asked to desegregate the lunchroom on MLK day, it puts a lot of pressure on an individual to take an uncomfortable risk. But I think if we got everyone to take a couple of baby-steps, we could create a good environment. If we get everyone to talk, stupid things will be said every once in a while, and that isn't a bad thing unless we needlessly ridicule people for saying something wrong. And I think this at least partially goes onto Mr. H, because I know a couple of times he's just followed my topic of discussion by telling me it's wrong, and that is mega-discouraging. I think it's better if we correct our own mistakes as a class than the call-and-response with Heidkamp that goes on now. Oh well. I have a dream...

[Josie]

Woh, popular blog. I actually just wanted to say that I think your blog would have really benefitted if the title had been, "Something to Blog About." Just a thought.

[abbyp]

I agree with Ashley and Mike, I would rather absorb a good discussion and then reflect on it maybe in a post or just think later about it that day, rather than spend the entire class period figuring out when a good time to 'jump-in' is just to get participation points.

[Kirsten H.]

I can understand Todd's frustration with the lack of diverse conversation in the classroom, but I am going to have to side with Ashley here. First of all I find it really helpful just to get someone else’s perspective. And second, well...You see there is some thing that people like Todd, Adam and Mike will never understand ...people are shy. Really shy.

You see I am one of these people. I read your posts about how if people would just put themselves out there, take baby steps etc, the class discussion would sore. But the thing that not-shy people will never understand is there is no such thing as taking a baby step when it comes to public speaking. Mr. Heidkamp understands this, so people who are shy won’t have an anxiety attack every time they have to go to English class. Ok so maybe I am exaggerating a little, but for some people that is a reality and I think that the class should respect that. The blogg allows shy people to mull over what they want to say. It gives them a voice, and I think sometimes it allows for more thoughtful conversation. I still hate doing it, but I think it can be helpful.

[Leecreesha]

I completely agree with you, except that I often blog at the last minute, because I often forget. I feel that in class discussion should be more engraved in our particaption, and we should at least bring up some of the topics that are listed on the blog. On the other hand, some people are shy and feel more comfortable expressing their opinions on line rather than in class. At least, that is the take I get from it in class. I feel that maybe we should incorporate both blogging and in class particaption into our participation grade.

[AndyD]

Much that has been said above is true. Like Leecreesha, I usually blog at the very last minute, not because I don't care, but because I forget to do it earlier. However, when I get around to it, and I'm sure the same goes for many other students, I put quite a bit of time and effort into blogging. In class participation should matter, but it shouldn't completely replace blogging for reasons listed above like the fact that people are sometimes more comfortable "speaking up" here than in class.

[Sarah W]

I've noticed that nobody from 5/6 has spoken, and I just want to speak up for us. Being a small class of 17, it's more intimate than other english classes I've had. Maybe it has something to do with the shape that we sit in (I only skimmed through the many other comments, so sorry if anyone commented on the shape). I think that maybe it should be a mix- if you talk more in class than blogging, or if you blog more than you talk in class. Personally I'm somewhere in the middle, and I dislike a mandatory blogging. I do enjoy talking with everyone from the other classes though.

[Loie D.]

I have to say that while a huge portion of our blog is due to blogging, I don't mind at all. Honestly, to me it seems like an easy way to get 40 points each week. I mean, we do have a full week to complete the blogging. Also, while participation in class is very important, I feel like some people are more shy when it comes to talking in class. Blogging gives the more shy people a chance to redeem themselves and that way their participation grade isn't destroyed if they don't talk in class.

[Zack J-N]

I guess since I'm answering with only one hour until the deadline, I’m not too much like you. No offense to anyone out there, but I feel like the people that don’t contribute do it in most part because they have nothing to contribute. With the couple of class discussion experiences I've had so far, I've found most people to be repeating ideas stated already, and they add nothing to my learning experience. Heck, I've even caught myself repeating Heidkamp, but in a far less articulate manner. The few unique thoughts that have been proposed in class were from outspoken people, ones who already participate plenty. To force those who have nothing of value to state regurgitate ideas seems like it would be a waste of precious class time, and I would learn even less. Through blogging I can browse the subjects of each entry and decide which ones I may find interesting or helpful, which is not the case in class. Everyone may have to sit in class for five minutes as Heidkamp explains to me a passage they may already understand. In a community such as this, I can propose the same passage for interpretation and receive many more responses than would have been allowed in the little class available. Granted, I may not be able to question any part of their response and receive immediate feedback, but I don’t think that’s much of a problem since everyone seems to state their replies quite clearly.

[Amanda P.]

I agree and disagree... I think that it's harder to blog because you have to actually think about what you're writing, as opposed to just speaking random thoughts aloud in class. On the other hand, I only talk in class when absolutely necessary. I think it'd make me talk if I had to talk to get credit.

[Dan T.]

From my observations, people will talk when they have things to say. Shyness may be a contributing factor, but I think the bigger issue is what we talk about. Analyzing literature is hard, and nobody wants to chip in and say something they think will get shot down immediately by Heidkamp or the rest of the class. But I've noticed in free-form class discussions that when people ask opinion questions (Do you enjoy this book? Are this character's actions justified? etc.), there is a lot more discussion than when we have to assess how Faulkner uses POV to indicate...whatever. When Heidkamp asked whether Estha and Rahel's intimacy was explainable, people rushed to insist yes or no, but when we tarted to talk about how Roy employed time changes to communicate a particular theme, there was silence. And from what I hear, a lot of people really like Light In August, but that doesn't translate to really good class discussions because we don't know the answer to the question.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take a stab if we're not sure. If you are wrong, and you don't speak up, that's one more incorrect idea you've got in your head for the test, and if you're right, you've contributed something to the class and you can be proud. And there's no shame in being shot down by Heidkamp (I would know), because then you can learn from your mistakes.

I sympathize with those who are shy, but outside of a high school english class, nobody is going to consider that a legitimate excuse for not trying. The only way to become more comfortable with speaking in class is to speak in class. So with that in mind, I think we have to make class a safer environment, as Todd said, to encourage more people to talk. To do that, I think we have to go to topics that are more accessible (Do you like this book and why?) in addition to harder, technical questions about syntax, etc. And if you're going to shoot another theory down, talk a little about the merits of the idea before you tear it apart (like we do with peer editing - one good commment, one bad comment). Right now, there is a strong incentive not to talk in class -- fear of a negative reaction -- so we have to fix that before we can expect more discussion.

[Charlie B.]

There are plenty of shy people, but there are not too many in 10th period. I know many of you from outside of class and you are an outspoken group to say the least. Yet when it comes to class discussions, everyone suddenly becomes silent. I just don't get it. Say something. Say something stupid. Who cares? It's better than nothing at all.

I think another problem about in class discussions that has not been addressed on this thread (though it first seemed impossible given how many responses there have been. dang!) is that a lot of people don't really read the books. Sure, you can get by on cliffnotes, and if you need to blog, you can read a few pages and come up with something, but if you want to contribute to a class discussion about the TEXT, you need to know the TEXT, not just the summary or crappy analysis online.

Now I'm not saying it's a realistic goal for everyone to read every page carefully for every day. I know that will never happen, and there is often a ton of reading (like this 70 page chunk for Wednesday). However, I genuinely think that if everyone spent 30 more minutes on English reading each night, there would be a lot more ideas to articulate in class. That being said, I'm gonna practice what I preach and go read some Faulkner. Hooray!

CB

p.s. Todd, you're inbox must be full of the silly TypePad messages. Sorry to add another.

[Scott S]

To be honest, it's really more about incentive than about anything else. Grades give us motivation to post so many posts, and that's it. So we say what needs to be said to get it done.

As a result, discussion is kind of out of the question. I've been on multiple blogs, mostly through myspace and xanga and such, and the frequency of posts is determined by interest alone. Since a lot of the material may not be, well, as thought provoking or captivating as we make like, we don't really feel like posting about. It's the same with a conversation.

What needs to be done is to propose more thought provoking questions. Easier said than done, but if you get the right questions to the right audience, you can get a lot of responses... kind of like this one actually.

[JennyW]

I agree with Todd's post, though parts of it upset me just a little. I think a big problem for the "non-talkers," or atleast for myself would be not knowing how to jump into the conversation. This sounds a little stupid,I know. A lot of the time I have something to say about a particular subject or topic, but we've already blown past it- so I just keep my comment to myself rather than bringing the entire class discussion back a notch. I feel like we're supposed to constantly move forward in our class discussions, is it bad to revisit old ideas at times?

[Shannon M]

I agree with you Todd. I feel like blogging is forced and it really isn't something I look forward to doing every week. But! I have a compromise...maybe...

I know I am much more comfortable talking in class and voicing my opinions in a face-to-face discussion...but not all people are that way. Some people feel cornered and shy during a forced monitored discussion, and would MUCH rather blog than have to speak in class for point. Maybe we should have monitored discussions once a week every week...and for the people that didn't get to voice their opinions...or simply had nothing to say at the time, there's always the blog. Then instead of counting JUST blogging for a monster 40 points a week...we could take talking in class into consideration...?
maybe maybe?

[Jasmine F.]

Todd, if I knew who you were, I'd totally respond directly to what you're saying, but sadly I don't. I will say this, you cannot force someone to talk. So if in class a person does not feel like participating in the discussion, then they shouldn't have to. Sometimes people may be just getting their thoughts together or figuring things out in their head. Or they might just be listening and thinking about what the people who are talking are saying. It is unfair for you to say what you did. Should the people's grades be punished b/c they aren't letting their thoughts be known? What kind of mess is that?