Lying Ira

Discussion Question number 8: Ira presents himself as a searingly honest man, and seems actually to believe that this is so.  Yet he consistently lies about two vital facts of his life: that he is a Communist, and that he is a murderer.  Does your knowledge of these lies imply, to you, that he is dishonest about other things?  That he is in fact dishonest by nature?

I think that Ira's lies don't make him any less than a person.  I think that it's a part of human nature to lie.  And not to condone his lies or anything, but I think that most anyone would lie or hide the fact that they killed someone, just because they would want to move on with their life and not have to dwell on a past mistake.  I mean why else would Ira start over in zinc town with the whole Gil Stephens thing?  He obviously wanted to get away from the murderer title and I couldn't blame him. 

As for Ira lying about being a Communist, that is shady.  I don't like how he lied straight in Nathan's dad's face.  I mean if you can just lie straight into someone's face, then what else are you going to lie about?

I think that the fact that Ira is able to lie about such big aspects of his life that he will definitely be dishonest about other things.  But I don't think that means that his lies take away from anything that he says.  I think that his thoughts, values, or whatever are still legitamate, no matter how much or how little I agree with them. 

Comments

[SarahB]

I disagree- I think lying does degrade/demean a person. I find it hard to respect a liar. I can sympathize with lying about killing someone- and agree that anyone would want to move on. However, that doesn't make it correct. And for something as signficant in his life as communism, I don't think he should lie. It kindof seems like he is degrading the thing that he believes in most.

[SarahB]

I disagree- I think lying does degrade/demean a person. I find it hard to respect a liar. I can sympathize with lying about killing someone- and agree that anyone would want to move on. However, that doesn't make it correct. And for something as signficant in his life as communism, I don't think he should lie. It kindof seems like he is degrading the thing that he believes in most.

[Lana G.]

I think that by lying about being a Communist, Ira is contradicting himself. If he will not stand for something that he so obviously believes in, he is a coward. A real man would stick by his convictions no matter what anyone else thinks.

[Emma H.]

Lana, I think you hit the nail on the head--Ira's lying about being a Communist is very contradictory: If he can't tell the truth about what he is and support his most forceful beliefs, then I don't think he really believes in it as much as he says he does. Someone like O'Day would not have lied to Nathan's father, and I think that this difference in attitudes is part of the reason that O'Day's final impression of Ira (after Eve's book was published) was as negative as it was.

[John M.]

I agree with Lana and Emma. Ira's character makes me mad throughout the book. If he's going to be such a loudmouth about an institution like communism, he should be brave enough to admit he is a communist. Throughout the book, Ira contradicts himself just as he does here. He repeatedly states that "we live in a democracy so I can say whatever I want". This right is given to him in a "horrible" democracy like the united states, and all he does with his right to free speech is attack the system that gave it to him.

[Maggie D.]

I totally agree with Lana. But if Ira had gone right out and admitted he was a communist, he would have be fake too. Ira is such a complex character and by not admitting he is a communist, maybe it can be inferred, that by lying he was above the system because he didn't owe it to the system to tell the truth?? I don't know, just an idea!

[Katherine R.]

Okay, I guess I agree with all of you guys, but I am going to offer another approach for the sake of keeping the comments unique. I think that Ira could have lied to Nathan's father because he so desperately (maybe unconsciously) wanted to become a father figure to Nathan and without Nathan's father's consent, Nathan could not go up to Ira's shack to have further discussions and develop a close relationship. So, yes, Ira lied about something very meaningful to him, but only in order to gain something else that was also very important...maybe that is not an excuse, but one possible explanation.

[Monica G.]

Again! Dishonesty vs. Truth in a novel! I think that this theme has been in every single novel we have read so far this year. I always think that I am reading too far into the work, or just putting ideas where there are none, but this theme really is present! Yay!